Intonation

[quincemothman]

Hi, I wonder if any one has had a problem with string intonation on the fret board especially with the D string. I have a wunsche 42 string harp zither ( Soloist ) and the D is sounding sharp so I have to flatten it slightly. Unfortunately this makes problems as it throws off harmony with the other strings. The bridge of course has no compensation at all. Is this a common zither problem? Would they have a way of fixing it if I sent it back to them at some point?

[Andy]

Hey there!

I had a similar problem a few months ago. I was constantly retuning the string, but then in Postion 2 / 3 on the fretboard, the notes would be off, even though the string was tuned to D. I ended up replacing the string and it fixed everything. It hadn't occurred to me until the problem that I was playing on the same D string for the past year and it was pretty grody.

hope that helps,
- Andy

[Kennethpauls]

... or tuning the fretboard strings on the 5th fret instead of open strings to compensate for the variations

[quincemothman]

Thanks Guys for your reply. How ever, this seems to be an on going problem. After several string changes its still the same though strangely it used to be so bad that I played my 38 string instead, but over a time it has improved on its own though still apparent. Now I temper the strings so that they all sound reasonably in tune and yes I work it around the 5th fret. I compered the fret measurements to my 38 string Wunsche ( frets to bridge ) with a ruler and they are identical though the 38 string has good intonation! Very odd. Cheers, Quince.

[kenbloom]

Is your D string a wound D or a plain phosphor bronze wire D? Switching from one to the other might help. Also, if the action of your D string is too high, that could also casue the problem. As you probably know, this is a compensation problem. If your string is fretting sharp, that means that the distance between the 12th fret and the bridge is too short or the action is too high. You don't have a lot of room on most zithers to correct this problem but I did on one of mine by cutting that wire for the fingerboard on the bridge and placing a small piece of similar idameter wire as far back as it would go. You can try the different string dodge and if that doesn't work, then I think the only recourse is to correct the poor compensation.

Ken Bloom
http://www.boweddulcimer.org

[quincemothman]

Hi Ken, no, the action isn't too high I lowered it a while back by thinning down the wire. I use Lenzner strings with a plain D. I presume a set with a wound D is a slightly higher gauge? I do like the Lenzner strings with plain D as they feel lighter than some others I've tried. Actually, I've just realized that the overall pitch had dropped a little on all strings so I've just tuned it all up to pitch and the D string is a lot better so I think that probably has something to do with it. I'll remember to keep it tuned up to pitch from now on. Cheers Quince.

[kenbloom]

Hi Quince, Those plain phosphor bronze strings area very sensitive to tension. If they are tuned below tension, then the stretch from the at-rest position to the fret can actually pull the string sharp. Keeping a good zither right at pitch is important. You have a very short string length and strings that are designed to play well within a very small tension range to achieve good tone at these remarkably short lengths. I'm glad that tuning up to pitch has mostly solved the problem. I've always found concert zithers to be pretty particular when it comes to being at pitch and all. When any of mine are either above or below pitch I can hear a real tonal difference. Thank God that we now have electronic tuners that make tuning fast and easy. I hope your zither days are now filled with joy!

Ken Bloom
http://www.boweddulcimer.org

[quincemothman]

Hi Ken, thanks for the info. I'll keep my zithers all up to pitch from now on. I'm ok with the plain D, not being very tall I have relatively small hands so my fingers are fairly light as long as it's controlled and I don't pull the string sideways. Cheers.

[Wilhelm]

Hallo quincemothman.
First, english is not my first language, so... I have some difficulties to understand what You actually means.

For me as a pipe-church -organ -maker intonation means something else. You can intonate the the sound of an organ-pipe but not a string.
If I understand You right, you have problem with the "overtone"? /color of the string if you have wrong pitch? Or, is the fret-(board?) I do not know the English name, das Grifftbrett in German, is not "good"?
However the bronze strings for D are the best and should be bronze for good sound. Someone wrote they are sensitive for tension, that is not my experience. If it is so, you have got a bad quality.

About to not make tension to it, on the Zither when you "make" "tremolo" like on a guitarr, you should not push the string up/down-light/high pressure,but slide it sideways, and the string must be good enough to do that not changing the pitch.

When tuning the seventh fret up gives the next loose-free string. Tune the D a little-little slightly up compared to the g string. I prefer and teach to make the "fifths" more "clean". listening to the "overtone"s and let the basic ground tone be a little-little swaying. This way the whole Zither will be more brilliant and singing.

Please come back and tell me if I understood your issue wrong.
Greetings from Sweden.
Wilhelm

[Rudy Mueller]

Can we assume that the weight/length properties of the strings are uniform from bridge to bridge? and do not change in specific regions (wear spots) of the string with use??

Are we assuming that the distance from the string to the fret, at rest position, is "zero"? Does the effective length of the string "increase" slightly as the fret is worn down?

Do these "imperfections" give an instrument its unique (slightly imperfect) character?

Hmmmm.

Rudi