Hey everyone,

Recently I have been trying to make more use of the Keyes Scales pdf. The C-Major scale in two octaves has chewed up my fingers, but it has been great. As I look ahead at the idea of playing scales by pattern though, I am a bit overwhelmed.

Is the idea that when you are presented with a piece of music in a specific key signature, say, Bb Major or C# Major; you are meant to move your hand into that key signatures position on the fretboard and play the notes via pattern? I hadn’t realized the fretboard was going to be quite so sophisticated.

- Andy

Hi Andy .
I am also a starter and my fingers are very sore.
I am practicing scales and am starting with C major two octaves.
C sharp major starts with 4th finger on the first fret of the C string and as you have discovered, has a different but consistent pattern through out the two octaves.
If you have a musical ear it helps a lot because you KNOW when a wrong Note is played.
This key is rarely played but it is good practice to get the feel of the finger spacings ( patterns ) in all scales.
All melodies derive from a scale.
It could be said that a melody is a scale with certain notes missing.
I can confirm that when playing in a chosen key then the left hand should adopt that key position and the right hand at the ready to the tonic note of the key to be played.
This is what DARR instruction says and it makes sense to have the right hand ready on the correct strings for that key.
My string set has not yet arrived so I am restricted to five strings on the fingerboard which is, at my stage....enough to keep going On!
It makes sense to me.
I am sticking my nose out here and may be wrong and if I am I stand ready to be corrected.
I am a musician so I can only feedback on my experiences with many instruments.
I am disappointed that I have not heard from expert Zitherists at all in this forum so we learners have to discuss our points amongst ourselves and feed off each other.
If I am wrong I am sure someone will tell me.
Good luck mate.
From Pete down Under!

I have to admit I'm envious of you guys!

Regarding scales: I'm convinced that scales practice is excellent left hand work, but as a former cellist, scales and "positions" come easily to me.

But getting the right hand accompaniment is the Mount Everest I'm climbing - not left hand work!

Pete, you mention "I can confirm that when playing in a chosen key then the left hand should adopt that key position and the right hand at the ready to the tonic note of the key to be played. This is what DARR instruction says and it makes sense to have the right hand ready on the correct strings for that key."

Could you point to where in the Darr that's talked about? I'm only getting started, but so far haven't seen a reference to "key position" or right hand "ready to the tonic note of the key".

I know what LH positions are (string players use them all the time), but don't see a Darr reference. And I'm afraid my dense ol' brain doesn't understand "right hand ready to the tonic note of the key".

Thanks.
Tom M.

So for clarity, using the Keyes Scales pdf, if I were looking at a piece of music written in Bb Major, which fret on which string would finger four go. And does the pattern Keyes describe change from hand position to hand position? The pdf makes it seem like the pattern should stay the same but the results don't seem that way.

- Andy

I'm convinced that some arrangers would script music in the key of the square root of three, if they could figure it out.
Please, as you begin your journey, don't get to up tight about playing in scales such as C# major. But zither players are in luck, or at least those who tend to Bavarian type arrangements.

As a beginner, try keeping things in C and G, then perhaps F. Keep things simple in the beginning.

When doing scales, look at the notes. Start with the C scale; get it up to the speeds Keyes suggests. This keeps the ring finger of the left hand in the space between he 2nd and 3rd frets as its home position. It may be rough, but you've got to develop hand-eye coordination. When you get the C scales up to speed for several sessions, then perhaps start looking at G and F, and others.

When I began guitar (self taught) I concentrated on repetitive accompaniment of "Schnaderhüpfl" or limericks.
♪ ♪...C C then down to G G then back to C C ♫ ♫....and on and on, and this has become my "home position" on the guitar.

Rudi

Hi Rudi - when you say "When doing scales, look at the notes."

Do you mean look at the strings and fingers? or do you mean look at the printed music at not at the strings and fingers?

A friend of mine (France/Alsace) uses the term "notes" when he means printed music.

Thanks.
Tom M.

Look at the printed music.

rudi

Hi Andy,
I have looked at the Keyes scales and cannot see any fingering there which of course does not help.
In the darr book it has the scale of Bb major in one octave.
The fourth finger covers the Eb and the Bb which occur on the first fret.
Because we need that finger to cover those notes the scale is started with the THIRD finger but the pattern is still there.
But like Rudi's says.....keep it simple.
Tom,
It's great that you have no trouble with the left hand.
You asked about where in the Darr book the information I gave is written.
Well it did not mention the Tonic as such but I took that as what was meant when I read
" As shown in fig 19, the second , third and fourth fingers of the right hand must in each of these scales, rest upon the accompaniment strings of the same key, in order that the spreading of the hand be practiced and that the pupil may learn to strike the bass strings, which lie very distant from the finger board such as E, B, F# etc , simultaneously with the melody strings".
In my Darr book this lies at the bottom of page 13....scales.
On a different tack, you asked me how high my strings are from the nut of the Zither.
The gap on the A string between the 1st fret and the string is 0.020".
This is the inner A string.
What should it be Please?


Peter