Update from Cincinnati/zither repair

Is your zither in need of repair? Do you have questions on how to best maintain your zither, or have advice? Post your questions and advice here.

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DonHurd
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:29 am

Update from Cincinnati/zither repair

Post by DonHurd »

Greetings!

I've got all my string problems worked out. When putting on new replacement strings, they appeared to be of the same winding as the F alt that I didn't think would tune up high enough. With the new strings successfully installed, with the help of a YouTube how-to video, I was brave enough to crank the F alt up to pitch without any problem. All replacement strings went on with little effort. I need to acquire a better wire-cutting tool, though. Everything tuned up beautifully, until the last touch-up of the fretboard C string, when the tuning key disintegrated! Now, how do I go about replacing that?!! And probably the others, since they are all the same vintage. But, all things considered, a good day at the zither! Don Hurd
Rudy Mueller
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Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:33 am
Location: Grafton WI 53024 RMUELLERMKE@GMAIL.COM

Re: Update from Cincinnati/zither repair

Post by Rudy Mueller »

good morning don,

ugh! sounds like a job for sasha.

you have multiple instruments?? are any from the same maker? if so, perhaps the entire tuning machines could be switched out. it would be a real surprise if the parts are interchangeable, but, life is full of surprises.

several years ago, i loaned my guitar for an afternoon, and when i got it back, two strings were missing and one key broken. a local music store was able to replace (but not match) the key, which i have kept as a reminder. the other five keys are still in place.

rudy mueller
Rudy Mueller
Posts: 603
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:33 am
Location: Grafton WI 53024 RMUELLERMKE@GMAIL.COM

Re: Update from Cincinnati/zither repair

Post by Rudy Mueller »

good morning don,

how is the broken key progressing??

rudy
DonHurd
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:29 am

Re: Update from Cincinnati/zither repair

Post by DonHurd »

Good morning, Rudy!

Since the broken key is on the C fretboard, I've just been ignoring it. It is flat, but o.k. Daily practice is a good thing, and my playing is progressing. I'm working on having a bigger tone than "just happens" in the accompaniment and bass strings. And familiarity with the order of strings is helpful to seeing how logically it is arranged and designed. I'm still just playing songs by ear, though collecting printed music to study! All fun and interesting. I'm looking forward to demonstrating my new skill!

Best wishes!

Don
Rudy Mueller
Posts: 603
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:33 am
Location: Grafton WI 53024 RMUELLERMKE@GMAIL.COM

Re: Update from Cincinnati/zither repair

Post by Rudy Mueller »

good afternoon don,

in the first several lessons, the instruction book by kabatek has the student tune only those strings which will be used in the lesson. also, there are some easy folk songs in the beginning lessons (ex:lorelei, comrade, waltz by lanner, etc). kabetek does bring the c melody string with "in kühlen keller" as the exercise.

two copies of this book have been made, one of which will be held here in grafton for personal use, the other to be let out on loan. if you'd like to see a copy for examination, send me a note through the "personal message" mode on the forum, or to rmuellermke@hotmail.com , with your mailing address.

when starting, i made up a few rudimentary arrangements of simple folksongs with melody only, accompaniment ad lib. they're crude, my calligraphic skills non-existent, but if you'd like to see a couple of samples, i'll send a list. these melodies kept me going until i started playing in a group.

the original of my kabatek book was offered today to an archive; better have it in a safe home than end up in a rummage sale or dumpster.

"zither sunday" at kurt eckroth's tomorrow; this will be my first.

gut klang!

rudy
DonHurd
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:29 am

Re: Update from Cincinnati/zither repair

Post by DonHurd »

Greetings, all!

Sorry to be keeping you in suspense; I need to locate a micrometer to measure the oblong pins. That particular zither does not have a manufacturer name, only the New York store from which it was purchased. While my Haselwanter is a fancier design, the New Yorker has a huge tone. Is there a proper name for the style that has the additional decorative/structural post along side the contra bass strings? I promise to get on the New York pin issue. I couldn't determine if the link David sent describes the wrench head at the top of the pictures: 6,2? Is that six centimeters, two millimeters? That's my best guess, so I've got to figure out the pin size. As I mentioned earlier, the pins generally look rather crude, so there may be some variation in the measurements. But I'm having a fine time practicing and determining the usefulness of the layout of the accompaniment strings. Designed by a very savvy musician! I'm going to have some future questions regarding how Karas gets his wide vibrato sound--similar to a Hawaiian guitar. Not sure I want to imitate it, though! Yesterday evening, going through vinyl records in a Goodwill store, I purchased 9 zither records! Some have very interesting pictures of the artists and their instruments. All are played in ensembles, some with yodels!
One of our Kolping Saengerchor members is trying to encourage me to, is it called Jauchzet?

Best regards!

Don Hurd, Cincinnati
Rudy Mueller
Posts: 603
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:33 am
Location: Grafton WI 53024 RMUELLERMKE@GMAIL.COM

Re: Update from Cincinnati/zither repair

Post by Rudy Mueller »

hi don,

the tuning pins on schwarzer 10833 are 4 x 6 mm.
4 mm = 0.157 inch if no metric drills available, then 0.156 inch = 5/32 inch
6 mm = 0.236 inch if no metric drills available, then 0.234 inch = 15/64 inch

although i used a calipers on this, most office supply stores carry english/metric rulers which would enable you approximate the dimensions. are yours close to these??

the 4 mm dimension is probably the most critical, to closely engage the longer 6 mm sides.

rudy
Rudy Mueller
Posts: 603
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:33 am
Location: Grafton WI 53024 RMUELLERMKE@GMAIL.COM

Re: Update from Cincinnati/zither repair

Post by Rudy Mueller »

a substitute key for schwarzer 10833 was fashioned from a fillister head allen bolt. not pretty, but will work with an allen wrench in a pinch if needed. if i were to do this again, i'd use brass or bronze rather than hardened material...three drill bits and a file later...

h froehlinghaus seems to have the most listings of zither stimmschlüssel (tuning keys) on ebay.de. one comment there: rechteckig werden seit anno 1950 nich mehr hergestelt...rectangular keys haven't been made since about 1950. don, not what you wanted to hear.

rudy
BrianB

Re: Update from Cincinnati/zither repair

Post by BrianB »

To drag up this old subject...

My first (no-name) zither had oblong pegs and I had resorted to using a small crescent wrench, which could be a nuisance.

I made a tuning wrench by gently squeezing a small socket (this was 5.5mm) in a vice to get a reasonable shape to turn the peg. I hadn't used it much since I have "graduated" to a better zither with square pegs and I'm not sure how durable this makeshift wrench would be. I happened to have a small bent handle that works nicely. For your amusement....

Brian
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DonHurd
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:29 am

Re: Update from Cincinnati/zither repair

Post by DonHurd »

Hi, Brian!
Thanks for your reply! I tried doing the same thing; the first pin I tried it on it got stuck on tight! (It is still stuck!) One of the above responses to my problem mentioned that a Schwartzer zither also had oblong pins. Soon thereafter, a Schwartzer zither was listed on ebay that included a key. Problem solved, but added another instrument to my new collection, now totalling four, three very usable and one with problems!
But your interest in the key situation will prompt me to resume zither practice!

Thanks!

Don Hurd, Cincinnati, OH
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