Slipping tuning peg

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cloudymoor
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:57 am

Slipping tuning peg

Post by cloudymoor »

My 11th harp string (A) is slipping and not holding its pitch. I purchased all red strings recently and haven't even needed this string yet as I'm a beginner so I assume it's the tuning peg. How do I proceed to try and remedy this problem???
Rudy Mueller
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Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:33 am
Location: Grafton WI 53024 RMUELLERMKE@GMAIL.COM

Re: Slipping tuning peg

Post by Rudy Mueller »

i've had the same problem on two or three pegs since replacing the left-hand bridge 2 years ago.

any suggestions anyone???

all red strings???


rudy
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Dave
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Re: Slipping tuning peg

Post by Dave »

A few things can cause this. Wear on the pin block is one. It could also surface during the winter, which could be a warning sign that the instrument is too dry.

First remove your string and the tuning pin. Using a small piece of material, such as paper, thread it into the hole with the tuning pin. This may provide just enough friction to hold your string to pitch. If not, try a thicker piece of paper. If that still doesn't work, the typical options are to use a wood shim, rebuild the pin hole with Super Glue, or use a larger pin size.

I should note that numerous materials have been suggested to me in the past to fix this problem, such as paper, sand paper and thread. I'd be interested to know what works best for you.
We do not take humor seriously enough. —Konrad Lorenz
cloudymoor
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:57 am

Re: Slipping tuning peg

Post by cloudymoor »

Thanks so very much for the reply. I was afraid to remove the peg and be unable to get it back in again.
cloudymoor
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:57 am

Re: Slipping tuning peg

Post by cloudymoor »

Update---I had great success using my own hair to plug up the hole. I have to thank Anne Prinz for this suggestion. It was easier for me to pull some hair out, rather than find paper and scissors, but I thank you Dave for those ideas as well.

Wondering if steel wool would work here. I did that when my piano's music stand hinges became stripped.
DonO
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Re: Slipping tuning peg

Post by DonO »

You may need the next size tuning peg, if the one in particular continues to slip and the string goes out of tune. Contact Sasha Radicic. He's the one who beautifully restored my zither (see Unique Alt Zither Restored on this website) and outfitted it with the next size pegs--all of them were loose in their seats as well as being rusty. Don
Bruce D

Re: Slipping tuning peg

Post by Bruce D »

The important thing to remember is that a slipping pin is due to too loose a fit, regardless of the cause. The cause, however must be determined in order to make a correct repair. Most are due to wear or improper original fit.

The means to repair them are several, but I would caution against "temporary" repairs such as plain paper or tissue slips inserted, human hair, etc. as these will wear if the pin is tuned much, and some can even cause more damage; the method to remove and replace them is to "screw" or "twist" them in. Never "drive" them in! That will cause damage to the fibers in the pinblock and may be a reason for the pin being loose in the first place.

I have restored 2 antique zithers in the 1980s and will soon be restoring 3 more for myself, so I have some experience. Also, I must note that the slipping-pin problem is not unique to German (or Alpine) zithers, but common to all such instruments (autoharps, chord zithers, hammered dulcimer, etc.). There are as many "cures" as there are instruments!

The main thing to remember is to take your time! Any job worth doing is worth doing right, as if you don't you will be faced with it again. "The longest road is the shortest way home."
fsiedow

Re: Slipping tuning peg

Post by fsiedow »

Hi, everybody: I'm Fred Siedow, new here, new to the Zither craze; in Mar found an 1886 Franz Schwarzer fancy Zither which I traded an old, good guitar for. It was missing 6 strings, so I have been working this problem, too. I'm 77, an old time model airplane builder, all-round mechanic and fixer. My Schwarzer tuning pins are oblong, ~4mm X 6, the side-to-side thickness being 3.97mm at the end to 4.23mm, about 1/4" down, or .156" to .1665". I believe the 4mm, or .1575" is the right target to use for the wrench (tuning hammer, it's called). I have a tiny open-end "Ignition wrench" of 5mm, and it doesn't work very well, it's too thin.
I removed a couple of the pins and observed that they were kinda roughly machined, with a fairly pointed tool, so that the OD of the pin was kinda like a shallow very fine thread. Mine were left-handed, so that to remove the pins you turn them clockwise, and to screw them in you turn them CCW. if you turn one of your pins CW, and you find it loosening, that's the direction to go to remove it.
So, in putting on strings, you'd have to turn the pin in (CCW) until it's pretty tight, then back it out (4-5 turns per that U-Tube video, if I saw the same one you did), then put in the string, trim, leaving a couple inches sticking out, then turn CCW to wrap over the string while "screwing" the pin back in , where it will start tightening up. You have to be very careful if you have removed the pin, to screw it back in (CCW) and go easy and slow, so that you can feel it fitting into the "threads" that it was in before you took it out. Try putting that loose pin in again, turning it to see it it sort of tries to come out or go in when you turn CCW. If you get it right it should turn easily at first, then get tighter as it pulls itself in (LOTS of turns).
I have used, if the hole is just too big, fine sawdust, mixed w/a LITTLE wood glue (not epoxy), use a good toothpick or small dowel, or piece of piano wire to spread some of the sawdust/glue into the hole, just enough to coat the sides of the hole. You only need .002 or .003 of an inch (.006 on the dia.) to do the job. Just getting the ID of the hole wet w/the glue will expand it some, and the dried glue/sawdust will do the job. When that's dry (24 or 48 hr dry time is best), try screwing in the pin. If it's too tight, then just use a tiny fine rattail file or a pc of 300 sandpaper wrapped around a small nail or wire, or a rusty nail to rub around in there to make the pin fit right. I'm pretty sure those holes are very slightly tapered, so they should get tight as the pin goes in. (Remember, if you get it too tight, you run the risk of splitting the wood at the top of the Zither!!).
If the hole is REALLY too big, I just get a piece of hard, fine-grain hard wood, either a dowel, or carve a 5/8" length round to the size of the hole, glue it in w/the good wood glue (use better than ELMERS), let it dry, then drill in the center of it to the size you need. You should be able to get a 5.5mm (.2165") drill, and be really careful not to drill oversize (try it on some scrap 1st!), or get a 7/32" drill (.2187" dia) . They will drill slightly oversize. (my pins were .222" (5.63mm) dia). You get the idea!
--some ideas, hope this helps. -Flamin' Fred. BTW, I found the "SNARK" tuning meter (cheap) works VERY good and allows fine tuning (any music store).
Rudy Mueller
Posts: 603
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:33 am
Location: Grafton WI 53024 RMUELLERMKE@GMAIL.COM

Re: Slipping tuning peg

Post by Rudy Mueller »

keep in mind the old physicians caveat....."do no harm".

the left hand bridge on our förg came off and fell apart into several pieces and sawdust on removing the strings. here was a case of "nothing i can do will make this worse". the transplant was remarkable.
Justin

Re: Slipping tuning peg

Post by Justin »

You might try a few drops of one of the tuning pin tightening solutions used by piano technicians. You might have to slip the string off and back the tuning pin out (be careful - it may be HOT from the friction). Saturate a cotton swab with the product (I've used "Pin-Tite from Schaff) and swab the tuning pin hole. Replace tuning pin IMMEDIATELY!
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