Thumb Pick Force

This forum will provide lessons for getting started and exercises for gaining proficiency.

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NutmegCT
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Re: Thumb Pick Force

Post by NutmegCT »

Hi Andy - until more experienced zitherists comment, I'd only say that you could be a bit more forceful with all the fingers (left and right). Sometimes you'll hear a bit of a twang on the melody, as your left hand fingers aren't pressed right up at the fret, or perhaps not pressed down enough.

I think also some of your accompaniment strokes are a bit quiet. Regardless, congratulations on using the rest stroke on all those accompaniment notes.

Your left hand fingers *may* be a bit too vertical. Many photos, books, and videos I've seen seem to have the left hand fingers at about a 30 degree angle to the strings. Difficult to tell from your video however. Also, can't quite see your right hand thumb, so can't make out your thumb ring position.

Something that I've been wrestling with: the position of the ring on the thumb itself. I've never known if the point is supposed to be parallel with the thumbnail, or parallel with the fleshy bottom of the thumb.

Maybe an experienced member can comment on which of the two photos shows the preferred ring position.

Tom M.

Ring point vertical (pointing straight down):
Note point angle compared to thumb nail.
Note point angle compared to thumb nail.
IMG_0074.JPG (80 KiB) Viewed 785 times
or, ring point angled toward thumbnail:
Note thumb ring angle.
Note thumb ring angle.
IMG_0075.JPG (63.64 KiB) Viewed 785 times
I start with point at the vertical, but it slides into the angle as I play. The angled point is difficult to "aim", as it usually hits the adjacent higher string. Maybe the ring is wrong size and/or shape?
Andy
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Re: Thumb Pick Force

Post by Andy »

Hey Tom,

Think your right about the forcefulness on both accounts. Just tried again and being a bit stronger with both hands producers a much nicer sound. I'll give the left hand angle an adjustment a try. I've been struggling a little bit with the height of the desk / stool I'm using, but I think its about right.

For the ring, I had the same issue when I was using a size up and ended up switching down. Here's how I've been wearing it, unless someone tells me I shouldn't hehe.
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kenbloom
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Re: Thumb Pick Force

Post by kenbloom »

My thumb ring is rotated so that the point is almost underneath where the nail is. I file the back of my rings smooth so I can use my thumb in both directions. Makes playing sixteenth notes much easier with less stress. As far as the left hand goes, you want gravity to be your friend. If you keep your wrist up then the natural weight of your hand helps a lot with agile finger movement and positioning and you don't have to press down as hard. I wouldn't worry about copying other people as much as trying to make your hands work in as natural a position as possible. We're all built a bit different. You want to be able to use both hands with as little strain as possible. Hope this helps.

Ken Bloom
http://www.boweddulcimer.org
NutmegCT
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Re: Thumb Pick Force

Post by NutmegCT »

Ken - I'd never thought about the point being so close to the nail. Thanks - I'll give it a try.

Is there a way for us beginners to know how the ring itself is supposed to fit? In other words, how do we know we have the correct ring size? Maybe several close up photos of your thumb with the ring on might help us.

Thanks.
Tom M.
kenbloom
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Re: Thumb Pick Force

Post by kenbloom »

Ring size is pretty easy to determine. If it slips, it's too big. I use #2 rings. I then take the tail that wraps around the thumb and bend the end back a bit so it doesn't bite into my thumb. I then take the point and file the back of it smooth and somewhat ovoid so that it has approximately the same shape as the front. I then take some 600 sand paper and 0000 steel wool and polish the filed surface. That way I can use the pick in both directions. My rings fit fairly tightly so that they don't slip on me when I do a back stroke with them. I bought a dozen rings from Zapf in the 70's and I'm still using them.
These modifications and procedures I developed over the years of playing. By the time I found someone to show me what to do, I had already figured out most of it. The Darr book was the only info I could find at the time and it's a pretty poor guide. If you want more info about any of this, just let me know. I'll be happy to help where I can.

Ken Bloom
http://www.boweddulcimer.org
NutmegCT
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Re: Thumb Pick Force

Post by NutmegCT »

Thanks Ken. That is quite a prep procedure you use on the ring!

It would probably be helpful if we could see a few close up photos of the ring on your thumb, in playing position, front and back. In my experience, you can make any ring stop slipping if it's pushed far enough toward the thumb's knuckle. Your comment "The Darr book was the only info I could find at the time and it's a pretty poor guide." reflects how tough it is to figure these things out when a zitherist isn't close by in the beginning stages.

Thanks.
Tom M.
kenbloom
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Re: Thumb Pick Force

Post by kenbloom »

Hi Tom, I don't have any way of doing a photo of my thumb but just to be morre specific, the first string instrument I played was banjo. My thumb pick for that rested squarely on my thumb nail. When I took up the zither, the pick felt right, again, resting about in the middle of my thumb nail. #2 rings are fairly small but can be carefully bent to fit properly. I can't emphasize strongly enough how you want it all to feel as natural and as ergonomic as possible. What works for one person may or may not work for another. There are a lot of videlos of folks playing the zither on Youtube, especially some ensembles in Czechoslovakia. By careful observation and also analyzing your own situation you can learn a lot. I hope this is helpful.

Ken Bloom
http://www.boweddulcimer.org
NutmegCT
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Re: Thumb Pick Force

Post by NutmegCT »

Andy - I just sent you a PM.

Tom M.
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