hand/thumb position

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NutmegCT
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hand/thumb position

Post by NutmegCT »

I've attached three photos of my right hand.

Could someone please comment on the position of the hand relative to the strings?

and the position of the thumb ring on the thumb?

I've never found a clear explanation of where that thumb ring point actually strikes the string. To me, it seems mine is too "flat" and horizontal relative to the strings. Should it be pointed down more? more "vertical"? I've tried rings #3, #4, #5, #6. But I don't know exactly how it should fit on the thumb. I usually find the point hitting a string adjacent (closer to me) than I want.

Note - in the bottom photo, the point is in contact with the string.

Thanks.
Tom M.
ultimate beginner
Attachments
thumb ring 2
thumb ring 2
IMG_0035.JPG (340.59 KiB) Viewed 1611 times
thumb ring 1
thumb ring 1
IMG_0034.JPG (403.5 KiB) Viewed 1611 times
hand over the strings
hand over the strings
IMG_0032.JPG (675.16 KiB) Viewed 1611 times
Rudy Mueller
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Re: hand/thumb position

Post by Rudy Mueller »

Hi tom,

#4 looks good to me, although I usually play a little closer to the fretboard.

Rudi

Nice zither, by the way.
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Dave
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Re: hand/thumb position

Post by Dave »

Hi Tom, I agree with Rudi. At some point you'll be able to leverage that 5th finger to pull a contra, but it will be harder to do if your hand is too far to the right. One way to position your right hand is to rest the edge of your palm on the bridge and fan out to the left. Your thumb should come to rest on the d string. Is your thumb over the fretboard now? Please see the pic below, though it's not a pretty one. Gory effects compliments of Kringle, 3 month old Great Dane puppy at large. :D
right-hand-position.JPG
right-hand-position.JPG (244.21 KiB) Viewed 1600 times
When striking a fretboard string, your thumb ring's "thorn" (tip of the ring) should be perpendicular to the string.

Dave
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NutmegCT
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Re: hand/thumb position

Post by NutmegCT »

Thanks Dave. I wondered about that thumb ring angle. None of the manuals I've got actually show the ring point on the string. I'd guessed it was to be pointed "down", but as the ring always slides so the point goes horizontal, I just figured that's the way it is. Now I'll try to keep the point "down".

If you look at Kabatek, p. 3, the little finger rests on the bridge itself, with the heel of the hand actually on the lower right corner of the instrument. There's no indication of how to position the thumb ring on the thumb, as the point isn't shown in the diagrams. Same in text on page 8.

Harris is a *bit* clearer, but no reference to the ring point being more vertical.

Keyes says the point should play the strings "about two inches from the bridge". The photo on that page (18) is the clearest indication of the point angle - but Keyes never actually said how to fit the ring.

Taborsky seems to show the right hand leaning very prominently away from the player. (top of p. 9)

Darr (p. 7) says to lay the little finger on the bridge, with the diagram (fourth page of Introduction) showing the hand leaning toward the player.

Schneider (p. 8) shows me the clearer position of the ring on the thumb.

Hintermeyer doesn't seem to give info on hand position, other than the cover drawing.

One thing that the above methods do, is present the beginner with lots of mechanics and theory (notation, note names, string numbers, accidentals, etc.) that I think would be more helpful if gradually introduced as the musical exercises require.

But thank heaven we have those methods to work with!

Of the above (Taborsky, Darr, Schneider, Hintermeyer, Schneider), which would be more appropriate for a beginner who's comfortable with music notation, but who's also just getting in to hand position and playing?

I never heard back from Eckroth regarding the Skype tutorial.

Thanks!
Tom M.
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Dave
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Re: hand/thumb position

Post by Dave »

I suppose one could find some value in any of the zither methods listed, such as songs, exercises, etc. I would recommend the later methods for tuning and technique, however. The right-hand pinky resting on the bridge used to be taught, but that's no longer the case. There are plenty of ancient photos of zither players resting their pinky on the bridge. Here's one from the American Civil War, for example:
4thinfantry4.jpeg
4thinfantry4.jpeg (33.18 KiB) Viewed 1593 times
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Rudy Mueller
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Re: hand/thumb position

Post by Rudy Mueller »

Any history behind this picture? State? Unit?

I recall one author mentioning that officers in some Wisconsin Civil War units were required to speak German.

Rudi
kenbloom
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Re: hand/thumb position

Post by kenbloom »

I have my thumb cross the string at about a 45 degree angle and come to rest on the adjacent string. I file the back of the thumb pick so that I can use my thumb in both directions. For my particular hand this seems to work very well. It also means that I can use the thumb pick as if it were a flatpick and play fast passages much more easily and much more relaxed. YMMV.

Ken Bloom
http://www.boweddulcimer.org
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Dave
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Re: hand/thumb position

Post by Dave »

Hi Rudi, yes indeed. The photo was taken from the web site. Here's a link to the article:

http://www.zither.us/?q=concert.zither.civil.war

Enjoy!

Dave
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Dave
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Re: hand/thumb position

Post by Dave »

Hi Tom, "point down" is probably a more correct way of looking at it than "perpendicular." Trying to force a 90 degree strike while playing may be hard on your wrist. Ken is correct in that you'll strike the string at an angle, and I suppose it may vary from player to player.

Also, looking at your photos, it seems that the thorn on your zither ring is a bit long. On some rings I've actually filed them down a bit. I wonder if this may be having an effect on your thumb position? Here's some additional info on that topic.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=51&hilit=ring

Dave
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NutmegCT
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Re: hand/thumb position

Post by NutmegCT »

Thanks again. I was just using "perpendicular" to contrast with the much more horizontal of the thorn I've been using. "Point down" is much more appropriate.

Thumb is much less a problem for me than finding the chords with 2 3 4. That's what is taking me way longer to get comfortable with than I expected. I try to move from chord to chord by "feel", but the fingers 2 3 4 don't always move as a unit. (And thumb movement just adds another layer of complexity/coordination.)

I swear half of my problem may be due to being a former cellist. On four string instruments, you go up a scale with left hand going from open string, to 1 to 2 to 3 to 4. On zither to go up a scale, it's 1 on the next lowest string to prevent sounding an "open" string, then 4 then 3 then 2.

Thanks.
Tom M.
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