Young zither players, tender fingers

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Rudy Mueller
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Young zither players, tender fingers

Post by Rudy Mueller »

One of the comments one hears from younger, interested children is "Oooo, that hurts".

What, if anything, can be done to reduce this digital tenderness? Lower the strings? Different strings? Is there a "kids" zither? or????

As an adult, I have difficulty reaching the contra strings midst the accompaniment. The kids have issues with smaller (tiny) hands trying to reach even the normal bass, then playing accompaniment. Is there a way around this? Just play the accompaniment?

Should smaller children even attempt the zither, or should they start with another instrument to get the technical details down?

Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated.

Rudi
kenbloom
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Re: Young zither players, tender fingers

Post by kenbloom »

Hi Rudi,

I think there are several things you could do. For starters I would use one of the older concert zithers with a shorter string length and then use harfenzither fingerboard strings. At the shorter length, these strings would have lower tension. Have a qualified technician go over the instrument to make sure that the frets are all nice and level and smooth and that the action (height of the strings above the fingerboard) is as low as is practical. I would start them with just the fingerboard for openers. You could then proceed to maybe adding a bass string for simple accompaniment.
When it comes to reaching all the bass and contrabass strings you have a few ways to go. The spacing on older less expensive instruments is usually wider than on more modern ones so that would be a consideration. I am a big fan of perfekta zithers. It makes it possible to reach contrabasses easily that I could hardly reach before. The downside is, of course, availablity. Not many of those around and usually expensive.
For toughening up delicate finger tips, I recommend using aloe vera cream on sore fingers and taking vitamin E internally to promote healing. Getting small hands to play all those strings can be a challenge but if the interest is there, then you just do what you can to make it all as friendly as possible. At least this is a place to start.

Ken Bloom
NutmegCT
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Re: Young zither players, tender fingers

Post by NutmegCT »

Back in the Dark Ages when I was a cellist, I learned that some musicians used "artificial callus" to temporarily toughen their fingertips.

Several I just found via Google:

https://quikcallus.com/

http://rock-tips.com/

You can also use a light coat of formaldehyde, but that may not appeal to folks these days.

Tom in Connecticut
Rudy Mueller
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Re: Young zither players, tender fingers

Post by Rudy Mueller »

Thank you both. These are some valuable hints. One of our locals has several "old timers", and on my next visit they'll be measured. The string length (right hand wire to "0" fret) of my present zithers is approximately 17 1/4 inches (43.7 cm).

Rudi
kenbloom
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Re: Young zither players, tender fingers

Post by kenbloom »

Hi Rudi,

The 17" length is the longer one. There are many instruments around with much shorter lengths, in the 15" range and I've even seen smaller ones. They should be relatively inexpensive to obtain. Let us know how this goes. It's great having more young ones playing!

Ken Bloom
Rudy Mueller
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Re: Young zither players, tender fingers

Post by Rudy Mueller »

The griffbrett string lengths of Förg, Schwarzer, and Hornsteiner instruments currently here are 43.6, 43.8, and 43.6 cm respectively.

The string length on my Japanese built/Hohner guitar is 65 cm. Considering the machine-end fret to be the "0" fret, There are 19 additional frets on this guitar (0 to 19).

If one places a metal object such as the tine of a tuning fork directly behind the 19th fret, the effective string length now becomes 43.5 cm. If one does this, the "open" guitar high "e" string has the same pitch as the "b" on the "a" griffbrett string of the zither, and the "open" guitar "g" string has the same pitch as the open "d" griffbrett of the zither. Both instruments were tuned "electronically, while the "pitches" from the modified guitar were compared "audibly", not electronically.

i.e. reducing the guitar string length from 65 to 43.5 cm increases the pitch of the "e" and "g" strings by one fifth (e to b, g to d), without changing the tension.

Guitar strings were used to replace the inner griffbrett "a" and the "d" strings on the Hornsteiner. The strings used were Martin clear nylon ball end, 0.028" (M28NB, 0.71 mm) for the inner "a", and 0.040" (M40NB, 1.02 mm) for the "d". The existing steel outer griffbrett "a" string was left in place at this time. The diameter of the 1.02 mm string was too large to fit through the slot on the right hand bridge, and a 1/16" (1.56 mm) hole was drilled at the base of the slot to accommodate the string. The "ball ends" of the guitar strings were removed, and replaced with slotted rings from the ends of salvaged zither strings, using a fish-hook loop knot.

The two nylon strings could be tuned (0.028" to "a" and 0.040" to "d") and played with no "buzzing". The tonal quality difference is not unlike switching from steel to nylon strings on a guitar.

Is there any significance to the string length of 43,6 + 0.2 cm across instruments?

The nylon strings are larger in diameter and more flexible than the steel/bronze a and d. It may be a week or two before these can be field tested. I'll run this modification past the participants of this week's zither Sunday.

Long term: The Hornsteiner will be returned to original condition, and the nylon strings moved to a salvaged instrument currently sitting in Mainz.

Thinking back to my youth, digital tenderness might have been a determining factor in my not learning zither at that time.

Rudi
kenbloom
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Re: Young zither players, tender fingers

Post by kenbloom »

Hi Rudi,

There are three factors to consider when designing an instrument as far as the string goes, length, thickness and tension. Any instrument is built to withstand a certain degree of tension. This limits the amount of tension that the string can exert. Now you are left with length and thickness. A thinner string will give you a nicer tone and more sustain than a thicker one so you look for the thinnest string available to do the job and still sound good. The other factor you have to consider is the material the string is made of, such as metal, gut, nylon etc.
Zithers are designed to sound good with metal strings on the fingerboard. You can certainly put nylon on there and have it function and determine which available string will work for the pitch you are aiming at by doing the measuring you did on the guitar. There is nothing wrong with setting up the zither fingerboard with nylon strings for tender fingers. Just don't expect the tone to be very zither-like. Nylon strings function at a much lower tension than metal ones and the zither is just not designed to sound great with fingerboard strings at this low a tension. Now the bass and accompaniment strings, which are usually nylon wrapped with metal etc., are specially designed to function at their designated length and pitch. I have seem too many zithers strung with autoharp strings by unknowing people and simply fall apart under the tension. You can always go lighter and have it work. When the harp end of my perfekta zithers started pulling up because I was using Berfe Blue Label strings, I went the lower tension Green label and the problem was solved (thank God!!).
The physics of this is all very basic. You want the instrument to produce the best in volume and tone, be easily playable, and not explode. You work out your compromises depending on which of those three things are most important to you and deal with the results.It sounds like you are finding the solutions you're looking for. One last thought. If you are going to use nylon strings, they will sound better if they are longer and still be easy on the fingers. I hope this rambling narrative is of some assistance.

Ken Bloom
Rudy Mueller
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Re: Young zither players, tender fingers

Post by Rudy Mueller »

Keep those finger nails well trimmed, and the cuticles (corners) polished with an emery board. Pay careful attention to the corners of the finger nails. Keep them polished and free of "hang nails". This will alleviate some discomfort. I keep a clipper and emery boards in the guitar and zither cases.

The front edge of the finger nail should be ~ 1/8 inch (2-3 mm) behind the fleshy end of the fingers. if not, the instrument (both guitar and zither) will start to sound like a banjo.

rudi
DanSymonds
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Re: Young zither players, tender fingers

Post by DanSymonds »

Hi all. Another thing to consider in playability is string height from the frets, or what luthiers call "action". Especially on older zithers, some (but not all) instruments slowly warp under years of high tension and the strings bow upward away from the frets. This requires an an increasingly strong "bite". When restoring old instruments I strive for 1/32" clearance at fret #1, 2 or 3/32" at fret 12 for a string, twice that or a bit more for C string. The nut fret can usually be adjusted to lower the upper clearance, but the lower clearance is more difficult for a zither. You can sometimes find a smaller caliber bridge wire, but unlike a guitar you have no saddle to file down; adjustment is much more limited for a zither. Fretwork can be really tricky and requires a bit of experience.
DanSymonds
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Re: Young zither players, tender fingers

Post by DanSymonds »

PS. As always, Ken Bloom is right on. String tension is also very important and can damage the instrument. It is best to avoid very high tension such as Red label
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