Gutmann Zither-Schule

This forum will provide lessons for getting started and exercises for gaining proficiency.

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DonO
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Re: Gutmann Zither-Schule

Post by DonO »

I'd heard NE & SE CT got slammed. We had 8" though we were forecast for 24".

Would enjoy meeting up sometime, as we'd once planned, when the weather subsides and moderates and it is safe to bring Zithers from house to car.

Some years ago I checked with the Yale School of Music to see if there were anyone there, or in the New Haven vicinity, who could offer zither instruction and coaching and they knew of no one.
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HeidiK
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Re: Gutmann Zither-Schule

Post by HeidiK »

Thank you very much for that Gutmann 'Zitherschule' Google Book.
I'm a total beginner from Berlin/Germany and started 10 days ago getting aquainted with the instrument.
I have quite a good musical background from playing other instruments, but I was always wondering how minor chords (I bIII V) could be played. Now finally I found the two common ways to play them in the Gutmann Zitherschule.
Great! - thank you for posting that link :D
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Re: Gutmann Zither-Schule

Post by velocio »

Note that Gutmann numbered the fingers opposite to the current scheme: In his book, ring finger = 1, middle = 2, index = 3, thumb = x (page 11). This may be confusing.
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HeidiK
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Re: Gutmann Zither-Schule

Post by HeidiK »

I didn't notice Gutmann's different finger numbering. But if I had, I would have ignored that anyway, because I already learned the common numbering of the fingers ;-)
However - I do not work on minor chords yet. Right now I still have to master playing right and left hand notes together, which I practice with the help of some simple lessons by Kabatek.
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Re: Gutmann Zither-Schule

Post by NutmegCT »

Gruss Heidi. I'm a beginner also - *very* much beginner!

I'm using Kabatek and Taborek, and I have moderate success with melody and single string bass through the first ten pages or so. Left hand and right thumb are smooth, but the chords (akkord) are a problem for me.

I find it difficult to use the right hand for two reasons:

1. Finding the proper strings for 2 or 3 strings chords (akkord) is difficult.

2. Adding the thumb for the melody makes the 2 ro 3 string chords even more difficult.

How is that going for you?

Thanks.
Tom M.
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HeidiK
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Re: Gutmann Zither-Schule

Post by HeidiK »

I find it difficult to use the right hand for two reasons:
1. Finding the proper strings for 2 or 3 strings chords (akkord) is difficult.
2. Adding the thumb for the melody makes the 2 ro 3 string chords even more difficult.
Hello Tom,
I agree: it's really hard to learn to play that instrument.
Especially the second I find very difficult, too!
But with the first, namely finding the proper strings, I already made good progress by mostly concentrating on only two chords: G and C (sometimes F as well).

Here's my approach:
For a better apprehension of the chord strings I printed out Taborskys chart and coloured the red strings.
When I studied the accompany strings' logic (and with the help of some circle of fifth knowledge) I found it really clever how the strings are arranged:
it's one quint following the next. So I know C is right above F and G is above C.
And as each major chord consists of a base (1), a third (3) and a fifth (5) which I have to "produce" with my right hand's fingers,
my fingers are positioned always in the same distance (intervals).
Just the strings do differ for each chord.
I made a scratchy little Illustration with my mouse to show you "how I think":
Chord_Orientation.JPG
Chord_Orientation.JPG (38.94 KiB) Viewed 1443 times
After I localize the two F-Strings for orientation,
I put my finger 4 in position and force it to stay there.
(Ah, and by the way I use a rubber band to keep fingers 5 + 4 together,
which helps me to establish a better "finger discipline").

Then I position 3 and 2 (remembering there are only two open strings between them)
and I also try to keep them in place as well.
Then I strum chord C - finger by finger, string by string.
I think it's important that the fingers - after strumming each string - do rest on the next (lower) string.
So playing the same C-Chord again becomes much easier, because I just have to move each finger a string's distance back to repeat that chord.
And as G-Major (and all other major chords) have exactly the same intervalls, it is just about moving the hand
- with the same finger positioning - a little up for G (which is the quint right above C) or down for F.

And secondly to learn to play chord and melody together this is one of my favourite exercises (Kabatek):
Kabatek_BohemianFolkSong.JPG
Kabatek_BohemianFolkSong.JPG (39.33 KiB) Viewed 1443 times
So, to cut a long story short:
That's how I try to master the right hand chords and the combination with the melody.
Good zithering and keep me updated with your own efforts :)
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Re: Gutmann Zither-Schule

Post by NutmegCT »

Heidi - that is a very helpful description of the "Heidi Method"! You are very logical, and the charts are very helpful indeed.

Something which surprises me, is that the method books never actually explain and illustrate what you have done so well. Finding a "base point" (the root of the chord) with 4, then putting 2 and 3 on the strings to complete the chord, and then repeat that chord until it's automatic. That's the way I learned to play cello.

The method books often simply show the musical notes of a chord, with finger numbers. But they don't show a "relation" of one chord to another. Other than your explanation above, I've never seen "learn the feeling of the four string G chord, then move fingers toward you one set of strings to the C chord, then move away from you back to G, then shift away from you to D chord", etc. It's much simpler for my brain to understand using your method - I don't have to count the strings individually to "find" them.

Thank you!
Tom M.
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HeidiK
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Re: Gutmann Zither-Schule

Post by HeidiK »

Thank you for that positive reply, Tom.
I'm really happy that you find this visual approach of mine helpful.
And you`re so right: in no book I found anything visualizing that interval logic of the zither chords.
Like for example guitar players have with their tab notation.

As I am an illustrator I always try to get an image of the problem.
And now that you agree that the learning books lack a visual methodical approach, I am spontaneously thinking:
While learning myself I should try to work out some infographic charts (as PDF or animation) to share this with absolute beginners like us.
Just for the moment my Mac computer is broken and gets repaired so that I can't work on a professional level.
That also explains that shaky little sketch. I normally can do better ;-)

Greetings, Heidi
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Re: Gutmann Zither-Schule

Post by NutmegCT »

Hi Heidi - here's a video (excerpt) showing charts and "finger positions" for melody and for accompaniment strings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrbQ5NIU0R0

I thought about buying the set of videos, but it's too expensive!

The video should add the "hold the chord position and move up and down to change chords" part you suggest.

Tom M.
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HeidiK
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Re: Gutmann Zither-Schule

Post by HeidiK »

Hi Tom,
I had discovered these videos, too.
They look good, but taking a look at the website I found them way to expensive, too.
And besides they only seem to have a good animated visualisation of the fretboard notes, but nothing alike for the accompaniment strings.

For the moment I will go on learning the instrument by myself and by doing so I will try to document all kinds of helpful visual ideas I have (there are some more) and design some PDF paper, maybe name it "Learning the zither - a visual methodical approach for absolute beginners.
If I'm ready to show something, I'll let you know and then I should try to find some advanced players' opinion on it, too.
Free download of course - to give back a bit to the zither community for what I got for free that helped me so far.

There is for example Ilse Harris from Australia. You propably found her, too. She has a "zithergirl" youtube channel with two great beginners videos and 3 videos on left hand chords: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCySO9x ... pSt214wmIg
I ordered her book "Lets Start for Concert Zither", but I'm still waiting for it - it has not arrived yet...

Greetings,
Heidi
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